This is not a review of the SCAR-H or SCAR-17S. It is a brief explanation of why I like the weapon system. It could almost be condensed into a Facebook post – but not quite. I will avoid a technical discussion in the interests of brevity.
Put simply, the 7.62X51 SCAR does what it was intended to do at a competitive price.
Although the AR-10 platform preceded the AR-15 platform, the latter has had considerably more refinement, development, and market competition. Thus, you are able to purchase a 5.56 AR-15 that could conceivably fulfill the exact same role as a SCAR-L or SCAR-16S for a fraction of the price of the SCAR. As a result, I find little point to straining one’s finances in order to buy a SCAR-16S instead of a Colt 6920 and a pile of ammo.
However, if you want a truly reliable, durable, and accurate modern .308/7.62×51 battle rifle, you are essentially forced to look at expensive options – in my opinion, the lower priced .308 ARs are not acceptable. The SCAR-17S compares very favorably on price to some of the other options on the market. The platform is functional, reliable, durable, accurate, compact, lightweight, easy to maintain, and easy to operate. It is not without a few drawbacks and it requires a different, or perhaps similar yet more concentrated, technique to keep on target during full auto fire. But it is an excellent weapon.
I think the military has come to many of the same conclusions about this family of weapons, albeit for slightly different reasons.
The photo isn’t *that* bad. I need to get some trigger time on one of these before I make a judgement for myself, but I heard good things about them second-hand from a friend that worked alongside an Army SF unit on his last deployment. They apparently spoke very highly of the platform.
There is only one flaw: the light weight combined with the recoil of 7.62 chews up electro-optics and optics.
The PEQ-15 is considered a disposable unit. Even more so on a SCAR-H.
It’s the forward movement and sudden stop of the large reciprocating mass, in my opinion.
I like the SCAR-H for all the same reasons you mentioned. I ran an informal speed test a few months ago with my SCAR-H and found that it handled on par with using a 5.56mm AR15. I thought this was significant as other 7.62mm platforms I’ve tried aren’t as easy to run as fast as an AR15. http://sinistralrifleman.com/2012/02/06/ar15-vs-scar-h-mk17s-speed-test/
I know West Coast SEALs are using them more and more. I have a few platoon photos of a buddy and more and more showing over his last few deployments.
But on price, what’s the difference between the Larue offerings in 308 compared to the SCAR 17’s?
This may be true, but in internet-land, it seems that some of the lower priced AR platforms are starting to get good marks. I think Armalite may really be on to something with their new design that accepts SR25 pattern magazines, and with time I think we could be at a point where the civilian shooter is asking themselves what they are getting with that extra 1500 bucks, whether it be FNs offering, or other .308 Stoner based platforms. I don’t forsee the offerings from Knights and LMT remaining the only good option for a reliable and accurate .308 AR.
I don’t believe the AR-10 design to be lost. Our STA platoon seemed to like them, practically all they took out were the M110s, and the brits had nothing but good things to say about their LMTs. It doesn’t seem to me the design is inherently flawed, and I’d love to see more companies who’ve done great things with AR-15s pick up on the .308s and get some good affordable rifles to market.
Mike
I don’t think much of anything from Knight’s Armament, honestly, or the company, or any of their representatives. Armalite is decent, but I’d still rather pay more for the SCAR-17S.
We had some guys test them out at Pendleton a few years back. They said what most people say, they are very accurate. But there were several issues (with the heavy) such as the way the stock sits on the cheek causes a weird chafe on your face if you shoot it for any length of time, the charging handle has to go, and there were issues with parts breaking off of the folding stock when it was opened and closed only a few times. Not sure how much of this has since been fixed.
I think they’ve worked out the stock issues – at least the ones I have used seemed durable enough.
You should check out the HK MR762. Although expensive, it is built with the rugged, tank-like reliability the company is known for. I’m sure if you contacted them, they would provide you all the info needed for an appropriate review and possibly even allow you to tour their facility if you’re in the area.
I’ve shot it – the company had no interest in allowing me to tour their factory when I was in Germany (had no problems with Sig or Steyr or a number of other companies) and even with the assistance of an HK engineer, the PR folks wouldn’t even approve the shipment of a 416 action spring to me.
You don’t need to test a 416 family of rifles, they’re HK and therefore without equal, the interwebs says so 😛
“Every thousand years the tears of the gods will fall and form an Hk receiver…” – Some Hk fanatic
I have used them for work for a long time now, and so have a lot of buddies around, they are far from perfect. They are overweight (big time), the rail is super bulky, stock BUIS on them suck and front one always breaks off (whoever thought it would be a good idea to have it eat blast all day long…..i dunno), disconnectors break all the time, not really sure what people think they do well.
That being said, they do seem to run for the most part and i shoot at least 2k/ month through mine and maybe clean it every 4-5k and it seems to run fine. without really doing anything. It is easy to say that personal guns are great, but they don’t really get the round count or banged around like work ones do.
I always knew HK hated me. After all, I suck. (And I’m a civilian.) But I would never have guessed that HK thinks YOU suck, and hates you.
The feedback I have (reliable sources in a respectable MOS shall we say) seem to go 50/50 on the entire platform. The ones against it don’t like the reciprocating charging handle as it seems to get caught on barriers and the like. The ones that like it love the handling and range associated with it. I’ve not shot the 16 or 17 so I have to hold my opinion until then.
Just ditched an EBR setup to trade up to a 17S. Yes the EBR was military, and looked cool, but it handled like a boat anchor and weighed about as much as one. After handling a 17S at a local shop, there was no comparison.
1: You can get a DS Arms Fal or PTR91 for $1,000 cheaper. I think they’re both fine rifles.
2: Why are you comparing a full size battle rifle to a intermediate caliber carbine? They fit two completely different roles.
1. No.
2. What are you talking about?
he doesn’t know you are talking about the heavy……nice
Yep, great weapon system, and not much more recoil that the 5.56 SCAR.
I have a friend that has a DPMS LR308 that he speaks highly of. It certainly is accurate…about 1 in @ 100yds from a rest with a magnified optic. It also seems to run well. Granted I dont think he has subjected it to a 1k rd torture test, but still….
I am not an expert on AR10’s but the DPMS seems to be a relative bargain. You get about 95% of the rifle for about 50% of the cost. I have heard some internet folks poo-poo on DPMS, but I figure that if it Runs and it shoots straight, that is what counts.
Is there something I am missing? Are there specific reasons for these criticisms? Has anyone tried running a more standard (lower $$$) AR10 like the DPMS vs a SCAR17 side by side to compare them?
I ask because sometimes more $$$ doesnt equate to better performance (Did someone mention HK compared to Glock?).
Steve
Yes, I have used DPMS and Bushmaster .308 platforms (since the merger, they’re made in the same place using most of the same parts). In fact, if you search this blog, you will find a high-speed video recoil comparison of the Bushmaster ORC 308 (DPMS LR308 in nearly all but name) and the SCAR-17S.
The DPMS rifles are generally low quality and have poorly selected gas system lengths, springs, and reciprocating component weights, which does not lend itself well to long term reliability or durability.
Most people will probably never shoot more than 1000 rounds through their semi-auto rifles in a lifetime, so if they’re lucky enough to get a DPMS 308 that works out of the box (the ones I have used have not), they might never know the difference. However, this doesn’t make the platform nearly as good for half the cost, it just means that they don’t know the difference (and for some this won’t matter).
So if you had a DPMS AR10 (or other mid-range .308 AR) and were to check/correct the issues with springs, gas ports, buffer weights etc, would that do the trick? Those sound like inexpensive fixes.
I suppose that the process of buying a cheaper rifle, then tuning and troubleshooting combined with the cost of swapping out springs, ports, buffers could put you into close proximity ($ Price wise) to a more expensive gun like the SCAR17.
Yes to your second paragraph. It depends on how much your time is worth. If I billed myself my normal rate for all the time I spent working on a Bushmaster 308 ORC to bring it to an acceptable level of performance, plus the replacement parts I used, I quite literally could have bought a SCAR-17S and had money to spare.
On that note, having much more experience with various firearms than I, how are Armalites offering stacking up? From what I have read, they seem to be putting out a better product than DPMS. They use forged parts, they’ve been playing with the .308 AR platform longer, etc.
I understand the military doesn’t always get it right, but stoner .308 platforms are being fielded all over the world, and they are well liked. Has armalite managed to “get it right” at a lower price, so to speak, where DPMS has failed?
Now that I am reloading, I shoot a significant amount more, so while I want to save a few bucks on the .308 platform and not just buy names, when I do eventually acquire one, it will be seeing thousands of rounds over its lifetime, so I don’t want a piece of junk.
Mike
I’ve long suspected that the issues seen with the modern 7.62mm AR-type platforms is that the manufacturers deviated too far from the original AR-10 design in an attempt to maintain parts compatibility with the far more prolific AR-15/M16 family.
P.S.: Did you get the chamber drawings I sent?
Yes, I did, sorry for not replying sooner. You have been exceptionally helpful. I will definitely credit you and TGZ in the article.
I don’t have much experience in hunting or wilderness, but I was just listening to Radiohead’s “Hunting Bears,” so I am only wondering… would you condone/recommend using a SCAR 17S as bear protection in a wooded/foresty area? Heh
Not really…I want something more than .30 cal…It would be way better than nothing, but not my first choice.
Have you had a chance to compare the SCAR to a Robinson Armament XCR-M?
No – they were supposed to send me an XCR a long time ago and never did – although I did send them the items they wanted from me. Once they got those, I never heard back from Alex Robinson.
I’ve read on a couple of sites, that stuff like that happens a lot with Alex Robinson. Too bad, the rifle looks promising.