Back up iron sights, or BUIS, aren’t very expensive compared to the cost of a rifle, but can add up to a few hundred dollars. Are they a worthy purchase, or is your money better spent elsewhere?
Back up iron sights, or BUIS, aren’t very expensive compared to the cost of a rifle, but can add up to a few hundred dollars. Are they a worthy purchase, or is your money better spent elsewhere?
I think BUIS are a worthless tacticool item on all Rec or HD ARs. But they do look cool, and served me well until I was able to buy a good dot. Now if more companies would just leave off that A2 front sight I would avoided them in the first place, but when you only need to buy a rear to get up and going, it’s an easy road to take. Now I have a pesky front sight in my way.
Someone needs to make a low profile gas block with a removable sight tower, so you can do whatever you want with your upper.
I actually like the FSB. It does not get in the way – for me.
I use them only to zero my Aimpoints and make sure they maintain zero. Never used them for anything else.
Andrew,
first, I enjoy this style of video. I would have to agree with your statement that back up sights are not very necessary. I chose to spend about $120 on a set of magpul back ups simply because I thought spending $200-300 was too much. I have used them a couple of times but definitely prefer my aimpoint. Thanks for all the good articles and videos.
Great piece on BUIS’s. I have to agree with one of the last statements you made, “spend the money on more ammo and practice, or buy a better optic”. All too often I’ve had newbs approach me to build them a black rifle and they try to pick my brain about every aspect of it, whether or not they should have the latest and greatest doodat, laser, light, etc. I ask one simple question, “What are you going to use this rifle for?” and unless they are military, police, or one of those secret squirrel dudes, about the only attachment they will need is a good flashlight and a sight of some sort, depending on the distances they intend to shoot at / style of shooting, I always recommend the Trijicon ACOG or an Aimpoint. We both have used the ACOG in combat Andrew, so I think you can attest to it’s rugged design and reliability as well as it’s multi-mission ability. It’s not the best for CQB / 25m and in type shooting, but as an all around sight, I don’t think it can be beat. Now, as for iron sights / BUIS’s….when your life is on the line aka combat, police, etc there is always the chance your sight (regardless of how rugged it is) will break, when and if that happens you still need a way of accurately bringing fire upon your target, without a back up sight of some type you cannot do this. Other than LE uses, I feel a BUIS is better left off, and the few C notes you’ll spend on a good set of them would better be spent on plinking ammo to hone your skills at 100 yards and beyond where the majority of your engagements will take place.
Heh. Dude, you should definitely start blogging. I don’t know of any armorers that do, and a good armorer like you?
“100 yards and beyond where the majority of your engagements will take place.”
Are you calling hunting or perhaps shooting paper/steel at the range “engagements”? I can’t imagine any scenario where a civilian would participate an “engagement” at 100+ yards.
I’m using a BCM upper with an A2 front sight, for me I picked up a Gen 2 Magpul for 40 bucks, seems well worth it to me. If you are already building on the platform (which is not necessarily cheap to begin with), why not spend the extra money to have the option?
+1. Was about to mention the Magpul ones, since they’re not as bank breaking.
Like you I have back up sights on my rifles, but seldom use them for anything other than to confirm zero. The big news here is that modern sights like the Aimpoints and Eotechs are much more reliable than most folks give them credit for. Also, if you are running a standard FSB and for some reason your sight fails you can still index your front sight off your red dot sight to get off decent shots at reasonable distances.
The new format is growing on me. It’s still good to look at, and the cutaway shots help provide variety and underline your point.
Strangely enough, each of your videos seems to answer a question I’d had only a week or two before. I suspect there are a large number of new and prospective AR15 owners asking similar questions, and your concise answers are extremely helpful.
If the AR has fixed sights (as my SP1 does), the question becomes: when adding a scope, do you care if it obscures the irons? When I had a machine shop make a custom SP1 scope mount way back when, I elected to have it drilled-thru to allow BUIS use.
I’ve used the irons (scope in place) a few times, and can imagine scenarios where they would save the day, but when I replace the SP1 with a modern AR in 6.8SPC or 300BLK, chances are it will be a flattop having only optics.
I don’t like the height over bore that results from attaching a scope to a fixed carry handle. To answer your question, however, I would prefer to have a mount that allowed me to still use the irons. If you’re going to have them there, might as well be able to use them.
> I don’t like the height over bore that results from attaching a scope to a fixed carry handle.
No dispute there. It’s especially disadvantageous if there’s any chance the target might return fire, as it exposes much more of your head. The line of sight on mine is a solid 4.0 inches above bore. Of course, the basic irons are 2.5 themselves. If keeping the irons open was not a requirement, the scope c/l might have been “only” 3.5 inches up.
So anyone contemplating the matter, even on a flattop, has to consider: what are the BUIS costing me in addition to money, and how fast can I switch to iron if I need to?
Like everyone else is saying – the new format is great. The black sheet is a huge improvement over the peg board which was strangely distracting. Though the high effort productions you formerly made look really great I don’t think it added much (if anything) truly substantial that wasn’t present in this video’s format.
The subject of “needing” BUIS is subtly nuanced. As always you present a logical well thought out articulate essay on the subject. You’ve really hit the nail on the head by addressing specifically the question of “need”.
I think where the subject of BUIS gets messy is when people stop discussing “need” and start instead getting into a more philosophical area of whether it is “worth it” to buy/own BUIS. Several of the comments in this thread are focusing on the “worth it” aspect which is a moot subject.
At it’s core the answer to “do you need a BUIS” is no. Similarly the answer to “do you need an AR” is no. It is statistically unlikely for a civilian like me to ever need a tactical firearm. It is exponentially more unlikely that in the event someone like me did need to use an AR in combat that I would also need BUIS. No civilian needs to buy either an AR, BUIS, or tactical firearm of any kind. The argument “you probably won’t need that” applies directly to tactical firearm ownership on a very compelling statistical level. The question “is it worth it” is more difficult and very subjective. In my opinion owning both an AR and BUIS are definitely worth it.
The list of stuff many of us own but will probably never need is extensive: fire extinguishers, comprehensive first aid kits, many forms of insurance, gun safes, any/all form of emergency preparedness kits/stashes/plans, spare tires, surge protectors, road flares/reflectors, etc..
I’ve never: had a house fire, been burglarized, had a tire so flat I needed the spare, had any need for more than the most basic of first aid supplies, been involved in a car accident requiring flares or reflectors, looked at the paper maps in my cars (in the last six years at least). Regardless, I’m still prepared within reason for all these events.
Which brings me to why this entire subject is so open to debate. Nobody can truly define “within reason”. Is it reasonable for someone to have an AR with a sling, VG/bipod, flashlight, laser, match trigger, quad rail, rail guards, BUIS, a red dot scope, 3x magnifier, a VLTOR stock with extra batteries stored in it, a cleaning kit stored in the pistol grip, and a sound suppressor? In my (very strong) opinion such a combination is unreasonable. However I also don’t understand why some people collect stamps yet I own $6k worth of coffee brewing equipment. To each their own when they decide to go nuts buying something for a hobby. If you can afford it, enjoy owning it, and can also afford to practice to the point that having it is not a liability to the point that it obviates any possible benefit of owning the AR in the first place then go for it.
So, uh… What constitutes a “tactical firearm?”
Wow, that’s what you took out of that overly long comment?
My definition is any firearm purchased or owned for the primary purpose of self defense or any other form of combat. A question of intent.
So for me my Browning Cynergy, Krag Carbine, XD(m) 9, Springfield 1911 TRP, M&P15-22, 10/22, Ruger 22/45 are not tactical though for others these could be depending on why they own them. I primarily own these for fun; competition, plinking, training, and educational purposes (introducing new shooters to firearms).
Alternatively my M&P15-vtac, Remington 12g pump, XD45, and LCP are all tactical as I bought them for the purpose of self defense and practice on them regularly with that specific purpose in mind. I enjoy them immensely and derive a large amount of fun shooting them but that is not why I bought them primarily. I have no expectation of ever having to use these for the purpose I purchased them and will be very very happy if the skills I’ve built up with them over the years are never put to the test.
That’s just the way I think about it though. Most other definitions I’ve heard are usually created by non-firearm people who are really just describing “scary looking” guns.
Did you ask the dozens of manufacturers at Shot Show who proclaim their accessories and firearms “tactical” what a tactical firearm is?
Just so you know, I was not the guy who asked you that.
I should have caught that at the time. If I had I wouldn’t have bothered to answer.
Nonetheless, it was a fun rant on my part.
For the cost of some BUIS, another backup red dot could be had, with the same benefits as the primary. And this is being done now.
I choose to “make” by own – a cut down M4 carry handle sight, and because it was a dissipator, I wound up using the Armalite NM clamp on FSB. About $80 together, near milspec, durable, no fiddling.
The contention that someone might “need” BUIS means it’s needed immediately – and dropping the weapon to an offhanded port to struggle with popping them up doesn’t seem to be the best response to “I need to get sights on and pull the trigger RIGHT NOW.” It’s happening directly after delay in discovering the optic is already useless anyway. How are they “back up” when they’re carried around folded up and useless? Do you keep a back up blade stowed in the bottom of your camelback, or clipped out front for immediate use?
Front BUIS clamped on a rail aren’t free float either. Divorcing hand, sling, and other rest pressure to keep from moving the barrel around means the handguard DOES, clamping a front sight on a slung handguard just puts the motion back into them. The shooter has now spent $150+ for a free float and another $125+ to get sights that move independently from the barrels point of impact. Not good.
Marketing just feeding testosterone challenged credit card machismo. Real world firearms dynamics are being completely ignored in the rush to own the tacticoolest range toy.
Very practical advice.
I put BUIS on rifles that might see defensive use or serious competition use (where an optic failing without a backup results in a DNF for the match). Otherwise they are an option rather than a need. I do think that if you have BUIS you probably should have the optic on a quick detach, because some of the failures that could happen will make the optic impossible to look through. Think sticky mud on the lens without a way to clean it.
I agree with Andrew’s points.
I’ve found that flip-up sights have a very questionable ability to hold zero. With each recoil they are moving around, and if that “return” point isn’t the same every single shot, your groups, particularly beyond 25m, are going to reflect that. For the money, the Troy fixed sights seem very promising but I need to test them.
What I do like about a front sight that’s visible through a red dot is that it tends to reduce the “bloom” that those of us with any measurable amount of astigmatism will see through an Aimpoint or EOTech.
Yes you neeed them. Life has taught me never to bet on electronics in general to work when I need them most. Batteries even more so. Unless you have a acog. But if you have the coin for an acog, or “need” an acog I would argue you need backups if your that serious. If you only have one rifle or only take one rifle to a class or hunting you need backup. If you have a half dozen battle rifles and you take one ar with flat top receiver amd only optics to shoot coyote or prarie dogs then no save the money.
I use BUIS on my AR mainly because I use an aimpoint which does not auto adjust for lighting conditions, so it can be too dim to see if I am shooting at night or low light, than switch my weapon light on and can no longer see it, so I just move my head down slightly and have a sight picture. I am not worried about quality optics failing either. I did not spend a lot of money on BUIS, I just traded my fixed one that came with my rifle for a folding one, so I can use an ACOG when I want to shoot out to further distance. The next AR I get will probably not come with them, and I will only buy a set of BUIS when I can find a good deal on a set.
I actually enjoy using the BUIS on my rifle. In fact, a typical day at the range will consist of first removing my optic(s) and starting off by practicing with the Irons. I will always put a good 100 rounds through the guns at various ranges. FWIW, my rifles all have the front sight base and a Matech 600m on the back.
Once I’ve shot a little with the irons and I feel that I’ve done well enough with them, only then will I put the optics back, confirm/re-zero, and finish up with those.
If you rock an eotech you better have them. How they have not fixed the battery box in 10 years is beyond me. Even the new ones with the side mounted 123 battery are having problems cutting out while shooting. Sorry, side tracked….. I think they are added bulk in most situations. I love seeing them mounted behind a powered optic that cant co-witness, i guess you could detach your 4x non-battery optic if it failed, just not sure it would make more sense than having an extra bolt in your stock to repalce when a lug sheered off mid firefight. Lol
Seriously, unless your are deployed and cant get a new sight, i dont see the point.
Hey, did you notice that the Colt SBR owned by “S” had an EOTech and no irons?
“s” ? We just had another go down this trip, so i am a little bitter, tj make it worse when the battery box was opened on the range the little rubber piece with the spring it fell out in the gravel and rendered the sight useless. Furthermore the entire gun was down cause the crappy back up sights that HK decided to use in the 416 had already broken off ( front ). Who thought it was a good idea to have a front sight that flimsy that folds down into the top ports of the flash sup, and therefore subjected to constant muzzle blast was not a shooter. Not a good design, i lost 2 bolt lugs off mjne this trip as well, but the gun still did fire with knly 1 malfunction (double feed).
Yeah, your friend whose last name begins with S, and is 6’5 and 270lbs of pure muscle? His hobbies include room clearing and shooting bad guys in the face?
Also, maybe you guys should get some rifles that don’t suck as much…
Yeah, well I think that was issued to him, so free-90-free is a pretty good price. We have them too and we had them when I was at Force as well, but they were what we are stuck with, same can be said for the 416 (it is issued and we have no choice in what we get to use there). There are far worse rifles that are being issued than the HK, don’t get me wrong. A lot of guys doing other things are getting stuck with bushmasters. We recently went to LWRC’s for training after I told the office that they were top-notch and those things were breaking and malfunctioning like crazy. I guess anything works when you take it to the range once in a blue moon and it sits in the safe, but you start putting down 5k through it every couple months and stuff is going to break.
Sorry, but I will never be a fan of eotech until they put some money back into fixing the problem instead of just sending us more of the same crappy battery boxes.
I will bring that up to eotech this year. Actually, you and I should go together.
I am game, do you know some guys over there? Cause, if that means we can get better stuff overseas that would help out a lot as I know we can order new battery boxes.
Yes, I have a contact over there now. He seemed like someone who could get something done.
Unrelated but, are you going to be at SHOT Show?
Yeah, I’ll be there.
lets link up on wed afternoon and hit the floor on thursday? I know you will be there all week, I will give you a call when we get in.
Yeah just call me. I have your stuff.
Are you still planning a comprehensive review of the Diamondhead Combat Sights?
Yes. In time.
None of my personal weapons have BUIS. I run either 1-5X variables or Trijicon 44/45’s.
I leave my rear sight up at all times when the optic is not turned on. Turning on the optic may take an extra 1 second that I can’t spare in a home defense situation.
If time permits I will turn on the sight and fold down the rear BUIS. Beyond this and the cowitness zero I see little reason for BUIS – but with the avalibility of inexpensive Magpul sights I don’t see why one shouldn’t have at least a rear with an A2 front.
I enjoyed the video and always like to hear what others have to say. I would just note that back in “my day” as an Infantryman, we had the M16A1 only with std. A1 sights. We were taught to fight Russians and their allies ina WW3 scenario which means basically a WW2 type of fighting (foxholes, move to contact, crawl, etc etc.) As I was a small arms weapons instructor I could see the advantages of optics WAY before they became standard issue. Of course my thoughts didn’t go too far up the chain of command as SOP was open sights, close combat (less than 400 meters to hand to hand) and the thoughts of optics for the foot soldier was rediculous. Same goes for elbow and knee pads 🙂 Anyway, I still believe in open sights but I also like optics. Will a regualr shooter ever need backups? Hopefully not but my soldier instincts are hard to let go of so I’ll keep my BUIS and my optics and just have fun with them. Thanks for a great video.
I have an Eotech 512 on my 5.56 upper for my AR and run it with no buis. I had a magpul but didn’t really like it, so I got a handle instead. I just carry it with my kit and pull the Eotech off when I want to shoot it. I have to extra lithium AAs in the handle if I need them. The handle mounted sight is really nice in itself, and takes very little time to change. I have it set to a 300 meter battle sight zero, and the elevation wheel can take it to 600.
On my 6.8 upper I have a 1-4 power Nikon scope in Nikon AR mount, so there’s no way to add backups anyway. There’s also no front sight. I mounted a Magpul attachment to the gas block that take’s HK hooks for the Troy battle sling. It’s a hunting rig so if something goes wrong I go back to my truck for another rifle.
I always shoot with both my iron sights and my ACOG. I have the sights that came with my DD and if there was one thing I would have liked better is my mount for my ACOG, mine has screws, the iron sights aren’t moved at all and don’t get in he way of mounting or dismounting the ACOG.
God Bless the USA!